Freedom of Expression

[Ammon]

@Dubeornotdube

You have seemed to use my poll to commercialize your religion and once again suppress our right to express our selves on the poll it self.

This is an inappropriate statement. For a start, the @ naming quickly followed by “you” make it seem personal, a context to be aware of if what follows is then critical, or could reasonably be mistaken as such. Given that it is followed by an allegation of ‘commercializing’ religion, it comes across as a personal attack on motivations.

Secondly, it mentions the exact thing I always loathe in random debates about ‘freedom of speech’. The claim that @RealityMoez was in any way suppressing your right to express yourself, made while expressing yourself about how he wasn’t letting you do so is, well, frankly beneath you.

Obviously, as a moderator here he could silence you in a click of the mouse. He could close the thread. He has the actual power to suppress you, completely. here, and has not done so. He could.

He could do so on the grounds that this is a forum about AI and tools for AI, in which a general discussion of ‘Freedom of Speech’ is at best off-topic. (For the record, I very nearly did exactly that when the topic was first posted, but chose to see where you would choose to take it, Dale).

He could close it, or silence you on the grounds that you have just clearly made false, personal accusations, completely against the Rules here. And he didn’t. In fact he has gone above and beyond to allow you freedom of speech, as have I.

Would you care to exercise the responsibility that goes hand in hand with freedom of speech, Dale, and go through your posts above carefully, considering how they might be perceived, and whether they are fair and responsible uses of that freedom?

(In other words, consider how you can clean up this discussion to invite further mature and respectful discussion, or decide that you prefer to have your speech and expression regulated by others so you don’t have to take responsibility for it. Otherwise it falls to the moderators to clean it up, or simply remove it.)

[Dubeornotdube]

I looked for a contact form so I could send my appeal to the administrators. I’m confident that it will be hidden in this forum by the moderators at large. So much for freedom of expression!

Appeal Against Injustice to the Integrity of my Poll

Dear Forum Administrators,

I hope this message finds you well. I am writing to bring to your attention the unfortunate events that unfolded within my poll thread titled “Does having to be politically correct an invasion of our freedom of expression?” The essence of a poll is to solicit straightforward responses to a specific question, allowing participants to express their opinions through a simple yes or no format. However, my poll was derailed by two moderators who chose to impose their personal beliefs and religious views, turning it into a platform for their own agendas. I believe this behavior not only suppressed my poll but also violated the principles of fairness and inclusivity that should guide discussions within this forum.

To clarify, my poll’s intention was to spark a debate on the relationship between political correctness and freedom of expression. It was not meant to be a platform for lengthy monologues that deviate from the topic, nor was it an invitation for religious discussions. Yet, one moderator offered an extended comment on their interpretation of political correctness and freedom of speech, while the other brought up their religious views and included a religious video. This not only discouraged forum members from participating in the poll but also created an atmosphere of discomfort and exclusion, as the focus shifted away from the original question.

As a member of this forum, I deeply value freedom of expression and open dialogue. However, I believe it is essential to ensure that all discussions, including polls, are conducted within their intended scope. By allowing moderators to steer the conversation away from the original topic, the integrity of my poll was compromised, and forum members were discouraged from engaging with the subject matter at hand.

I would like to emphasize that my intention in raising this issue is not to silence the moderators or to challenge their beliefs, but rather to advocate for a fair and respectful exchange of ideas within the boundaries of each discussion thread. Diverse perspectives are valuable, and I welcome different viewpoints on the topic of political correctness and freedom of expression. However, when those views overshadow the main subject and discourage participation, the spirit of healthy debate is lost.

I respectfully request that you review the exchange within my poll thread and consider the impact of the moderators’ actions on the overall forum atmosphere. I believe that by addressing this situation, we can reinforce the principles of respectful dialogue and inclusivity that this forum strives to uphold.

I am confident that, with your assistance, we can ensure that future discussions, including polls, maintain their focus and provide a conducive environment for members to share their opinions freely and respectfully.

Thank you for taking the time to read my appeal. I trust that you will consider this matter with fairness and understanding.

Sincerely,

Dale Sims

[Ammon]

And with that demonstration of entitled idiocy, Dale’s ability to hold further discussions was lost.

I absolutely hate when people’s idea of ‘Freedom of expression’ means they want to tell others what to do, but not have to listen as carefully in turn. I term this “Free-Dumb”, but it is really nothing but a particular flavour of utter hypocrisy.

Obviously, to anyone who can actually read and apply even the smallest modicum of reason, this decision has absolutely nothing to do with religion - not even Dale’s obvious irrational bigotry to the very thought of religion. It is about the ability to be reasonable and responsible within the community.

I myself already have taken personal responsibility for my decision, when this topic was first posted, for my decision to see where it might go, and give Dale Sims the benefit of the doubt I had about it’s relevancy to the community, or any possible constructive purpose. I even extended that chance by being the first to respond, a day after it was posted, when no other had done so.

In that very first response, I included a caution, against the kind of ‘freedumb’, against the excuse of ‘freedom of expression’ used to demand a right to be heard, while not hearing others.

@Ammon

The ‘rights’ of one person to play their music loudly may very well impinge on the rights of their neighbour to enjoy reading a book in silence in his/her own home. The rights of one person to speak can impinge on another person’s freedom to not have to listen. There is always a compromise, and by and large the law tries to find the compromise where everyone gets a reasonable amount of freedom without having too much of their own affected unfairly by the freedom of others.

You can play your music or cause a noise in your home, but if it is unreasonable, either in volume, or at the times you are doing it, the police may tell you to stop. You have the right to assembly, but if that causes too much inconvenience and disturbance to too many others, that too can be asked to stop, or result in arrests. You have the right to speak, but not to harrass, to offend, or be unreasonable about where and when and for what purposes you use that right.

Obviously, that caution, despite being repeated in reworded form by Dale, was not actually heeded (or perhaps just was not understood).

Equally apparent is the irony of a man starting a discussion about ‘freedom of expression’ who had a post removed that included (in it’s 2 line entirety) the words “I refuse to listen”. The entire basis of freedom of expression is that all views should have the right to be heard, to be considered, even if subsequently found unacceptable. The very notion of refusing to listen, refusing to consider, is completely against the very ideal of free expression, open debate, etc.

Exactly as I said - just another flavour of hypocrisy.

There is, of course, one final irony, in my silencing Dale, despite that it is the reasonable and sensible thing to do when all attempt at reasoned discussion, a direct warning from the senior moderator (that’s me) has failed. However, that is an irony, at Dale’s expense, that I am entirely at ease with, and were I at full liberty of self expression might say “Well, he f*cking deserved that, alright!” with a grin.

[Chuck_Gibson]

As much as I enjoy (deeply) these topics, they are not the purpose of this forum.
It’s fine to make comments here and there, in respectful ways…
… we do live together in a more-or-less common society after all.

But when the conversation becomes the tail that wags the proverbial dog, it’s time to put the tail back in its proper place.

I support the administrators here, as I believe they have shown great forbearance.

[Alfgogering]

The improvement of moral standards is the key factor to ensure a good environment for freedom of speech, and freedom of speech must ensure that different opinions are respected and discussed rationally so as to reach consensus, instead of arguing for the sake of argument, such discussions will only be endless and waste time.