Credit Card Declined - and no I'm not a "troublemaker" or "criminal"

AIPRM Premium
1

This thread will probably get deleted based on how customers are treated. But here we go…

I must say, I’m taken aback by the response in this thread…

https://forum.aiprm.com/t/solved-the-credit-card-is-declined-what-can-i-do-use-a-trust-worthy-credit-card-or-not-become-aiprm-user/19270/3

It appears that in your attempt to strengthen your credit card “fraud” policies, you’ve inadvertently cast a wide net that ensnares even the most well-intentioned customers like me. I’m from Cape Town, South Africa, I run a successful business, and not once has my business credit card been rejected —until I attempted to use it with your service.

The only consolation I received was a curt “Sorry we cannot give support for” followed by a link to your “help” article about why you don’t wish to help. So naturally, I sought answers in here in this forum with nothing but dissapointment.

It’s essential to recognize that not all of us are from countries that may be perceived as “foreign” or “war criminals”. Unfortunately my government is a sh*tshow but whose country isn’t. I’ve successfully conducted business across the globe despite it.

Despite my attempts to subscribe since the launch of your promotional pricing, I’ve been met with the declined roadblock. I missed out on the discounted offer due to your lack of assistance, and now, it seems I can’t even secure a subscription at the standard rate. Basically you’re denying my business and you’re unwilling to help even. The cheek on you!

Am I expected to march down to my bank, request a new credit card, and return only to face yet another rejection? Get real. How many people have you not driven away from your business and brand because of this. Wait, you said already, it’s potentially hundreds to thousands.

It’s disheartening to see what appears to be a disregard for customer satisfaction in your business model.

I’m willing to reconsider my sentiment towards you guys if someone can assist me, but as it stands you shut the door in your customers’ faces, even if they’re eager.

2 Likes
2

Unfortunately, AIPRM don’t have the time and money to invest in becoming their own credit card processor. That process is ridiculously filled with bureaucracy, regulation, etc. Instead, like most others online, AIPRM rely on third-party processing. Those third-parties are the ones who accept or decline credit cards.

There is a HUGE amount of fraud online. Cases aplenty of people trying more than 30 stolen credit card details in a row trying to find the one on the list that might work - because hacked or stolen credit cards are sold in lists of thousands. AIPRM has had its share of exactly this kind of attempted fraud, and the only thing that stops it from happening is those third-parties that check and verify. From what I understand, AIPRM feel confident in the security of their current providers, and really don’t want to risk that security in trying out alternatives who’s sole credential is being more lenient and more trusting.

There will, sadly, be a few edge-cases. I have no idea why the companies that have accepted tens of thousands of other subscribers have turned down all of your payment methods. I doubt anyone that works for AIPRM knows either. Perhaps you’ve had a card need to be cancelled in the past, perhaps you use an ISP that hundreds of fraud cases have been done through, but for whatever reason, a company that doubtless would like to make money has some reason for declining your card - and that is their area of expertise.

AIPRM is a mass-market service. A million users. Way over 10,000 paid subscribers. All for a relatively small company that is trying to work on a great product but in an area where the entire landscape is shifting and changing with every moment. They have to focus on the service, on keeping up with all the changes, and even trying to predict what is coming next, with a small agile company. They simply don’t have the resources to handhold every transaction, and have to rely on trusted third-parties for many things. It is those third-parties you have an issue with.

I have a few friends in South Africa, so I do have sympathy. Your country is struggling from decades of corruption, where even the power services are unreliable. You have strict limits on imports that can make it difficult just to keep up with technology. And yes, it can be exceptionally difficult to pay for a great many things, as quite a few essential financial service providers refuse to deal with South Africa at all.

These are not your personal problem, of course. You have no control over that stuff. But likewise, this is not AIPRM’s personal problem, nor their fault either.

2 Likes
3

I’ve got a number of other subscriptions via Stripe which were not blocked. It’s only AIPRM.

1 Like
4

I feel for you. Just as I feel for hundreds of thousands of Russians unable to buy products and services because of decisions by a government that would jail them just for protesting. I just can’t fix it or offer any other course than trying to find other payment methods, or else simply making do with the free version. Sorry.

2 Likes
5

Hi Gallor,

We leave most posts online.

Your post is a very legit question, but even the most absurd claims and complaints are left online, they are being discussed and explained, also mostly thanks to our great moderators pro bono @Ammon and @RealityMoez

Yes, it sucks to get rejected - I get it, and I’m sorry, that you don’t have a credit card that passes our aggressive and 100% automated credit card fraud rules.

Just today we had a new high-score, someone trying 1687 stolen credit cards in very short time. Can you believe that?

This is not about you, this about a large credit-card-mafia that is using low cost services like ours to validate their cards. That’s all it is.

It’s also not about South Africa, I’ve just looked and found substantial number of customers from ZA.

number of other subscriptions via Stripe which were not blocked

You may not know this, but of course(!) Stripe is earning from every transaction, even fraudulent, regardless if you end up with legit money or stolen money. It is the merchants responsibility and risk to handle frau, and even pay extra fees to Stripe to get the data to do so.

Other SaaS?

Most of them are clueless, lack experience or are even greedy enough to accept money from all high risk purchases, taking some stolen-card-chargebacks as part of their business. Some may even walk way with 1000s of revenue from stolen cards, without even knowing.

We reject 1000s per day, automatically.

That’s how we work.

I think @Ammon nailed it.

You have no control over that stuff.
But likewise, this is not AIPRM’s personal problem, nor their fault either.

I wish we would have the capabilities to differentiate between a legit customer and a fraud, by 100% certainty, but I don’t.

That would be another startup idea.

Get real.

As always, concerns, complaints or unhappy users are no reason to change our legal policies, business principles or make exceptions of any kind, especially not to anti-fraud rules.

In the future we may have a way how you could buy access,
but today I’m sorry to say, we don’t.

All the best,
Christoph

2 Likes
6

PS: I’ve also looked up your specific payment attempt and it turns out, that this is ONE of the many cases where we don’t even get any information from Stripe, or the Bank.

Stripe literally says “declined and that’s it”

Payment declined by the issuing bank
Tell the customer to try a different payment method, or they can contact their issuing bank for more information.

That’s not anymore helpful, but it explains how this is just one of 1000s of cases we don’t have control over.

Nothing we can do here, and in many other cases.

And obviously we don’t have the power or money to chase down reasons why a $20 charge didn’t work.

Does that make sense?

Good customer support is also to declare what we DO NOT do, without misunderstanding - even if you don’t like the answer, or are “used” to other companies spending fortunes on such a case, we don’t.

2 Likes
7

I think this is the part that shocks people. They think that because a minority of people are crooks, that it is a minority of situations. But the plain fact is that just one crook, in a single session, put in as many fraudulent attempts as 10% of all the legit customers. Now times that by 100 crooks…

Legit customers mostly only need to process one card. But an average crook will try to process 30+, and may try more than once. This isn’t the first fraud attempt to attempt hundreds of times, and pretty certainly won’t be the last either. When you look at it in terms of cards, sometimes there can be many more cards that need to be declined than are legit. Shocking, but a glimpse into what payment processing looks like these days.

2 Likes
8

ive never seen a fraudulent payment attempt on any of my websites, not in ten years and in some grey areas.
I wonder why you are being targeted? or am i just that lucky? well, it sounds like thiers a cost on denials. Never sen one.

1 Like
9

Yes, you are the rare exception, and we have 1000s of stolen credit cards every day on AIPRM.

1 Like
10

Might be due to less popularity of your websites?

1 Like
11

Might be possible… with over 1.3 millions free users we attract a lot of bad people, too

2 Likes
12

haha absolutely, Im genuinelly wondering as opposed to criticising, wanting to picture where/why pne would attract them directly. i was presuming that if trying hundreds of numbers then its robots, who dont particulalry care if our websites are popular or not . need to think outside the box sometimes :wink:

13

yep , thats a lot haha wtg